About a year or so ago, I was thinking of ways to improve NIMH outreach – to help show the world of non-scientists what NIMH-related researchers are doing. I wanted to not only convey the issues, insights, and implications of their work but also provide a glimpse into the world of clinical and basic brain research – to reveal the researchers themselves and what their day to day work looks like, what motivates and excites them, and what their challenges are. Initially, I was going to organize public lectures or a public forum, but the overall impact of this seemed limited. I wanted an easily accessible medium that also preserved the information for future access, so I decided to take the leap into podcasting. I love a good conversation and felt I was pretty good at asking good questions and keeping a conversation flowing. There have been so many great conversations that I have with my colleagues that I wish that I could have preserved and saved in some way. The podcast structure is slightly awkward (“interviewing” colleagues), and of course, there is always the pressure of not saying the wrong thing or not knowing some basic piece of information that I should know. I had and still have – for quite some time – much to learn with regard to perfecting this skill.
I decided to go through official NIMH channels to get this off the ground, and happily the people in the public relations department loved the idea. I had to provide them with two “pilot” episodes to make sure that it was all ok. Because the podcast was under the “official” NIMH label, I had to be careful not to say anything that could be misunderstood as an official NIMH position or at least I had to qualify any potentially controversial positions. Next were the logistics.
Before it started, I had to do a few things: pick an introduction musical piece and a graphic to show with the podcast. Also I had to pick a name for the podcast. I was introduced into the world of non-copyrighted music. I learned that there are many services out there that give you rights to a wide range of music for a flat fee. I used a website service: www.premiumbeat.com. I picked a tune that seemed thoughtful, energetic, and positive. As for the graphic, I chose an image that comes from a highly processed photo of a 3D printout of my own brain. It’s the image at the top of this post. Both the music and graphic were approved, and we finally arrived on a name “The Brain Experts” which pretty much what it was all about.
For in-person podcasts I use a multi-directional Yeti microphone and Quicktime on my Mac to record. This seems to work pretty well. I really should be making simultaneous backup recordings though – just in case IT decides to reboot my computer during a podcast. I purchased a muli-microphone & mixer setup to be used for future episodes. For remote podcasts, I use Zoom which has a super simple recording feature and has generally had the best performance of any videoconferencing software that I have used. I can also save only the audio files to a surprisingly small (much smaller than with Quicktime) file. Once the files are saved, it’s my responsibility to get them transcribed. There are many cheap and efficient transcription services out there. I also provide a separate introduction to the podcast and the guest – recorded at a separate time. Once the podcast and transcript are done, I send them to the public relations people, who do the editing and packaging.
The general format of the podcast is as follows: I interview the guest for about an hour and some of the interview is edited out – resulting in a podcast that is generally about 30 minutes in length. I wish it could be longer but the public relations people decided that 30 minutes was a good digestible time. I start with the guests’ backgrounds and how they got to where they are. I ask about what motivates them and what excites them. I then get into the science – the bulk of the podcast – bringing up recent work or perhaps discussing a current issue related to their own research. After that, I end by discussing any challenges they have going on, what their future plans are, and also if they had any advice to new researchers. I’ve been pleased that so far, no one has refused an offer to be on my podcast. I think most of gone well! I certainly learned quite a bit. Also, importantly, about a week before I interview the guests, I provide them with a rough outline of questions that I may ask and papers that I may want to discuss.
For the first four podcasts, I have chosen guests that I know pretty well: Francisco Pereira – an NIMH staff scientist heading up the Machine Learning Team that I started, Niko Kriegeskorte – a computational cognitive neuroscientist at Columbia University who was a former post doc of mine, Danny Pine – a Principle Investigator in the NIMH intramural program who has been a colleague of mine for almost 20 years, and Chris Baker – a Principle Investigator in the NIMH intramural program who has been a co-PI with me in the Laboratory of Brain and Cognition at the NIMH for over a decade. Most recently, I interviewed Laura Lewis, from Boston University, who is working on some exciting advancements in fMRI methods that are near and dear to my heart. In the future I plan to branch out more to cover the broad landscape of brain assessment – beyond fMRI and imaging, however in these first few, I figured I would start in my comfort zone.
Brain research can be roughly categorized into: Understanding the brain, and Clinical applications. Of course, there is considerable overlap between the two, and the best research establishes a strong link between fundamental understanding and clinical implementation. Not all brain understanding leads directly to clinical applications as the growing field of artificial intelligence tries to glean organizational and functional insights from neural circuitry. The podcasts, while focused on a guest, each have a theme that is related to either of the above two categories. So far, Danny Pine has had a clinical focus – on the problem of how to make fMRI more clinically relevant in the context of psychiatric disorders, and Niko and Chris have had a more basic neuroscience focus. With Niko I focused on the sticky question of how relevant can fMRI be for informing mechanistic models of the brain. With Chris, we talked at length about the unique approach he takes to fMRI paradigm design and processing with regard to understanding visual processing and learning. Francisco straddled the two since machine learning methods promise to enhance both basic research and provide more powerful statistical tools for clinical implementation of fMRI.
In the future I plan to interview both intramural and extramural scientists covering the entire gamut of neuroscience topics. Podcasting is fascinating and exhausting. After each interview, I’m exhausted in that the level of “on” that I have to be is much higher in casual conversation. The research – even in areas that I know well – takes a bit of time, but is time well spent. Importantly, I try to not only glean over the topics, but dig for true insight into issues that we all are grappling with. The intended audience is broad: from the casual listener to the scientific colleague, so I try to guide the conversation to include something for everyone. The NIH agreed to 7 podcasts and it looks like they will wrap it up after the 7th due to the fact that they don’t have the personnel for the labor intensive editing and producing process, so it looks like I have one more to go. My last interview will be with Dr. Susan Amara, who is the director of the NIMH intramural program and will take place in December. I have other plans to continue podcasting, so stay tuned!
The podcasts can be found using most podcast apps: iTunes, Spotify, Castro, etc.. Just do a search for “NIMH Brain Experts Podcast.”
The youtube versions of these can be found at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV9WJDAawyhaMmciHR6SCwop-9BzsbsIl
The “official” posting of the first 6 podcasts can be found (with transcripts) here:
- Feb 19, 2019 Danny Pine:
- Feb 19, 2019 Francisco Pereira:
- June 20, 2019 Niko Kriegeskorte:
- Dec 6, 2019 Chris Baker:
- March 16, 2020 Laura Lewis:
- Sept 8, 2020 Robert Savoy:
Lastly, if you would like to be interviewed or know someone who you think would make a great guest, please give me an email at bandettini@nih.gov. I’m setting up my list now. The schedule is about one interview every three months.
